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By this time Mrs. Rumsey was in touch with the Consumers' Committee of the AAA and knew what they were doing. She was sort of aware of the economics of the situation herself. Pat Jackson was on that consumers' council of the AAA, but I don't know if that was where I met him. You didn't have to meet Pat Jackson. Pat Jackson just thrust himself onto you. I didn't know that Pat Jackson was a part of the AAA until long later when I just stumbled upon it by accident. Anyhow I really wasn't interested in what they were doing in agriculture. I knew that there was a purge, which Pat Jackson was involved in, but I didn't know much more than that about it.

Fred Howe was also in the AAA. I knew him from way back in New York. He wrote Hope of the City. He was a social and political reformer from the Lincoln Steffens - Ray Standard Baker period. Everybody knew him in New York. He was the same generation as Raymond Robins. I don't know what they were going to do, but it was really to reform the city. Fred Howe once said, “The only solution for democracy is more democracy.” That's in one of his books. I think that's a good line. I don't know whether it's true or not, but it's a good line and he faithfully believed it. It sounds all right and if you do it properly it may be true. Certainly there's an element of truth in it.