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It was perfectly obvious that he was implying to this fellow, “You're a German and you don't know anything about these things.” It was painful in a way, and there was tension between the two. There was no question about it.

At any rate, nobody had ever thought about the idea of a vote. We adjourned the talk until the next day. In the meantime I got busy with the union on the telephone and asked how a vote would suit them. They said it would suit them fine. I said, “Remember, it'll be a secret vote. The Department of Labor will have nothing to do with it if it isn't a secret vote. There'll be no rising up in a public hall and voting. It'll be a secret ballot just like an election.” Swope was also explaining this to this man, whom I'm calling Mr. Schwartz, though that was not his name. Swope was inventing the terms as he went along. He said we would use the regular election machinery.

Schwartz said, “There's no way of taking a vote. It can't be done.”

“Well,” said Swope, improvising, “we will use the regular election machinery - the polling places, the ballot boxes that they use when they elect the mayor or vote for Congressman. We'll use them in just the same way. It will be a secret vote. No one will know how anyone else votes. We'll ask the board of elections, who certainly have nothing