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he came to Washington. He was totally unknown in '33.

Getting back to the NRA, I had contact with Richberg's group only through Richberg. I don't think I saw any of the others of the group. All I know about them was that I learned from Richberg who talked quite a lot to me. Richberg was interested, as I was, and I enlisted his help in getting this thing together.

I went to see the President and told him about all this. He said, “For heaven's sakes get them together. They must be brought together. We mustn't have three or four plans submitted. If they're planning in good faith, tell them I want them to get together.”

I conveyed this, saying first to the President, “You'll have to say who's to be the head of it, because they won't won't get together otherwise. You have to indicate one of them as head of the committee.”

He said, “Well, who would you recommend?”

I said, “The person who's been most cooperative with me and who wants to get everybody together is Richberg.”

“Well,” he said, “see if we can't use Richberg as a kind of informal head. I don't want to put him in charge, because that would make the others mad. Besides who is Richberg anyway?” After all, Richberg wasn't anybody either. His only standing was that he was the counsel for the Railway