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Harold Stephens found it very difficult, but he, like me, felt that it was essential that we should stand by, and that we should not abandon either the NRA, or Hugh Johnson, or the President's relationship to it. Only a few weeks ago (1953) in talking to Harold Stephens at a little farewell lunch we had together, he recalled this period when we were so tried with the whole NRA thing and how hazardous it seemed to him at the time. Anything might have happened. Very unfortunate things might have happened. He felt, as I did, the necessity for somebody who was responsible standing by. So Stephens and I went on to the bitter end. Roper I think also went on to the bitter end, although Roper was more and more pushed aside by Johnson and came less and less often. But he never actually retired from it completely.

However, the fiction of Johnson's meeting with a Cabinet committee regularly disappeared. Johnson practically ceased coming. The people who came would be Richberg and Blacky Smith, but at least we kept track of it. Harold Stephens had established himself with Johnson as a friend and colleague. So had I. That was useful. Either one of us could go to him at any time. Stephens did occasionally, without regard to this irregular committee meeting, go to see Johnson. He kept an eye on NRA, kept in touch with