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else's hands and he would never get his controls on it again. That was what alarmed him. He still believed that his thinking apparatus was capable of controlling the economy of the U.S.A. and that the NRA was the tool. I think he really gave himself a sense of duty, a sense of higher obligation.

By evening of the second day he was openly expressing to me the fact that the President was trying to push him out. Whether he gathered that from newspaper people, or someone else, I don't know, but he said to me, “I don't know whether the President is trying to push me out or not.”

I said, “Oh no, he's not trying to push you out. He wants you to go and get this information. He really wants this information.”

“You might as well tell him that I've written him a letter that I can't go. If he wants to push me out of NRA, he can push me out of NRA.”

I said, “Now, General Johnson, he really wants you to make this report. Who else is going to? You know the people in the State Department don't understand what's going on. Their reports haven't reflected it.”

“Of course not,” he replied. “Cordell Hull doesn't believe in this kind of thing. Cordell is as old-fashioned as high button shoes.”