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been totally repugnant to him, that he could see the NRA coming under the Department of Commerce if he were head of the Department of Commerce. But the matter wasn't ever discussed in any detail, and certainly that wasn't the President's idea.

At any rate, the newspapers kept up speculation - “what about Johnson?” They kept asking him questions.

I was seeing the President almost daily, or talking to him on the telephone, about a number of matters - not this alone. McIntyre was pressing the President very heavily at this time to realize that Johnson was a hazard, that something had to be done. So the President sent for Johnson.

I had an appointment with him one day just after lunch and Johnson was coming to see him the afternoon of the next day. The President said to me, “I don't know how I'm going to do this, but I've just got to tell Hugh somehow or other that he has to go. It's worse than I thought, Frances. I hear from other people that it's worse than you said.” I realized then that I had tempered the wind to the shorn lamb a little, but also that there undoubtedly were other matters going on that I didn't know anything about and that were pretty serious. When the President had started to inquire, he had learned a number of things