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The president looked like a wreck when this was over. It was really hard for him to do it. He had just made up his mind that it had to be done and was his duty. He sort of wiped his brow and said, “Gee, that was awful. Thanks for coming.”

I said, “Well, now, what are you going to do with the NRA? You've got to think of that.”

“That's right,” said the President. “Well, Richberg will have to take over. That's all there is to it. Just do the best you can, Richberg.”

There was a little more conversation about who was in the NRA who was good, how it would be carried on, and so forth. I think the President said to Richberg, “Remember, if you get nervous about this, remember that this commission to Europe's all right. I won't tell the press that's off. That can always be opened up if Hugh wants it and wants to go.”

That was the end of that episode. Richberg and I went out pretty weak. It was a very weakening experience. We had a little talk in the outside room without coming to any conclusions as to what was next on the agenda.

I still don't know when exactly this conversation took place. It might have been on the 20th of August, but again it might not have been then. I don't remember