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that he was planning all kinds of things. A Lovestone-ite was a Trotsky-ite. People like John Dewey and his outfit were terribly interested as to whether Trotsky was right or wrong. Who could tell? The episodes in which he alleged he had been wrongly treated must have taken place a considerable distance away and I never heard that there was any reliable testimony as to what had happened. Trotsky either was exiled or ran for his life out of Russia. I don't remember which, but anyway he got out of Russia. There were a good many people in New York, like Dewey, who were interested in all this. John Dewey was the head of an outfit that made an investigation of whether Trotsky had committed a crime or not, and whether he was therefore wrong in this disoute with the other element, which by this time I think was beginning to be called communist.

I never talked about this to people who were really involved in the high politics of the union, but just to people on the periphery, just such fellows as came up on the bargaining committees. Max Zaritsky, of the cap workers, told me about all this one day. He illuminated for me this intense political feeling that there was inside these unions, this fight between the Trotsky and Lenin people in Russia. That always