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would try to be honorable about it and report it, but I had a lot of other things to report too. What was going on in the relief field would take naturally second place in the minutes available to me for consultation and reporting.

Hopkins didn't tell me this, but I saw and felt that he began trying to find some kind of circuitous coute to get into the President more and to keep the President interested and concerned in the relief programs and projects, and not so taken up in the many other things that he was doing and that were going on. Hopkin's motive was always relief. He never had a personal motive at all. The President was forgething about relief and Hopkins thought he mustn't, that he must keep him interested in it in order to get the money and the concern that would give these poor people something to live on. Hopkins was just torn to pieces by the sufferings of the people.

Between Hopkins and Williams they thought up this idea of approaching Mrs. Roosevelt. She was already interested in the poor and what was happening to them. She had begun going around to look at various social Work projects. One of the first things she did was to go out to Blue Plains to look at the Home for the Indigents