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inventive, very imaginative. Whereas, Mrs. Roosevelt, if the question of war came up, or anything that led toward war, would be negative at once, extremely negative. She felt one shouldn't talk about such things. They musn't be thought of. One must feel that this country was not ever going to be in a war and war should be stopped. We should have nothing to do with it but intervene as peacemakers to try to stop it. That was printed in a thousand pamphlets all over the United States and was a very popular view. She certainly had it.

Whereas, whatever thoughts Harry and the President had were more deeply buried. Harry had developed, as I said, this new phase of his personality which made it possible for him to think in that field.

I began to realize from then on that Mrs. Roosevelt was very cool towards Hopkins. She no longer felt warmly towards him. She was no longer his special sponsor. He didn't need her any more. There was no rift between them in her mind, except that the President no longer needed her advice. She continued to go away and Missy continued to preside over the White House. I don't know if she ever came to the realization that the President needed her for things other than advice. I think