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I would say, “No, but this is the thing that Morgenthau's always trying to put over. The President never said it's all right. You'll have to watch for it.”

It would be little things like that. He would thank me for it. I would put him on to occasional things. He would ask me for an explanation, what this meant, what they referred to when they were referring to something that obviously had taken place sometime back. We started doing this almost right away, within the first two or three weeks. I liked him right away and he was very pleasant.

I think by 1940 we might have changed the table and had the long coffin shaped table with the President sitting in the middle. Before that the President had sat on the end and I think that the Secretary of the Navy, whoever he was then, would have sat on the other side of Wickard. I don't remember Wickard turning to him. He turned to me. I turned to him. I didn't carry on much conversation with Jesse Jones on my left. Jesse and I were friends, but he was awful deaf and you couldn't carry on a clandestine conversation with him. He was terribly deaf. He used to shout and put his ear out.