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double talk, cross talk, raise new questions and kept everybody else from expressing his views on these things until the President was back in the room.

I say that to illustrate the fact that that was the only time in all the years that I was in the Cabinet with Henry Morgenthau that he ever in a Cabinet meeting gave anybody a gleam of human recognition. He never smiled. Claude Swanson would try to give him a cigar and the would look straight ahead and pay no attention to him. He always was trying to have little private sotto voce conversations with the President - very sotto voce. He sat next to the President and it was easy. He would try to be very exclusive - that “twosing” kind of thing you sometimes see in school where a boy will talk to only one person. There was a great deal of that.

So nobody had any human relations with Morgenthau. So Wickard didn't have any with him. Mr. Hull was always extremely courteous and polite and friendly to everyone in the Cabinet in a southern gentleman style. Ickes, of course, was very much a man of moods and a law into himself. At first he was very sour and severe, but he later became more flexible, particularly with regard to the President. I should have said that Ickes probably didn't like Wickard, but I didn't know. He certainly