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heartaches and problems. He said, “For all I know it might even have prevented our getting into the war. We would have had a greater influence.” He often made that speech about Wilson and the foresight to move to bipartisanship. I don't remember who else spoke up. Morgenthau would probably have nodded. I think Jim Farley was still in the Cabinet. I don't think Farley said anything. That would be strictly up to the boss. He didn't protest and he didn't cheer.

Garner was doubtful, without being opposed. I remember Garner said, “It depends a good deal on what you mean by a Republican, Mr. President. It depends a good deal on the kind of a fellow he is. Some of them are very mean.” Garner was an experience politician. I remember the phrase, “some of them are very mean,” meaning that they would sell you out if they could. The President agreed that some of them were very mean.

Then he said, “Well, I'll tell you who I'm thinking of. I'm thinking of Frank Knox.” There was an astonished silence. I don't think anybody there had gotten the idea previously, although Harold Ickes may have. He may have talked to Harold Ickes about Knox, because Ickes, after all, was Chicago, knew Knox and so forth and so on. At the time I remember thinking