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But if he was looking for a place to put another labor man on I thought that either Harriet Elliot or Leon Henderson could have been spread, because we had people as good as they were in several of the departments. You could have brigaded them together and said, “New cook up something.”

Then he explained that what he was thinking of was attracting the loyalty, the cooperation and the reconciliation of all elements in the population. He appointed a defense council and had to appoint a woman on it. Well, politically that's really a very good idea. It was a good, sensible idea. I didn't object to having the woman on it, except that I wanted the place for another labor man to balance against Hillman. I thought we would have great trouble with the AF of L, and we very nearly did.

At any rate, I went away form that Cabinet meeting saying to myself, “Well, by George, he really has said that the regular officers of government are not to do the defense work.” He didn't say that exactly, but he certainly implied it. I was fairly discouraged. I saw the political idea that he had in mind, but I didn't think he'd shot high enough. I didn't think Knudsen was good enough. I didn't think Hillman was good enough. They were competent people, by they didn't have enough following. They didn't mean enough in the thinking of the USA. Hillman was an unknown person to the public.