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and everybody else. I think he found Hillman, in the dealings he'd had with him, quickly responsive to practical suggestions and ready to make a trade. Hillman always was ready to make a trade. He would do and carry out his end of it if you gave him what he wanted, which came down to being at one time special pants for the uniforms so that we'd have work for the pants makers and not have all the uniforms go to the uniform makers. That's why we have pink pants in the army. That came later.

At any rate, Harry had learned that Hillman would go through with what he said he would do. Hillman would go through with his end of the bargain fine. Harry liked to deal with him. Hillman had certainly the outward, and to some extent the inward, qualities and attributes of an intellectual. He thought about thinking. He thought about ideas, as well as about simple practical matters of how to move this and how to move that. And he was very patriotic at this point, very— at this point, and I emphasize “this”. He hadn't always been, and he wasn't always afterwards.

As a matter of fact, Harry trusted him because he stood to lose more than any other labor man by falling out of favor with Roosevelt. He had gained enormously in the years since 1933 by virtue of the fact that Roosevelt had included him in. Hillman had been an outsider in the labor movement. Under