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Roosevelt he became an insider. As I've said, Roosevelt knew that I was going to and rather wanted me to suggest that they take him back into the AF of L. That wasn't easy to do and then, of course, he hurt their feelings terribly by turning around within a couple of years and going with the go-outer movement of the CIO. So the AF of L didn't trust him, although they recognized how smart he was. He was a very smart and capable person, quick as a scat to think of things.

So I said to Tracy, You'll have to think whether you can work with Hillman. Do, for heaven's sakes, see what you can do with the AP of L.”

I remember his saying, “I guess you're right. I guess I'll have to do it. If the President wants us to work with Hillman, I guess that's the Assistant Secretary of Labor's job. I would rather do it than to have some of the other people in the department do it, because I think I can handle Sidney and talk to him more sensibly than some of the people in the department who would be awed by him. After all, he's nothing but another labor man to me. Some of these professors we've got around here might not do so well. I guess I'd better do it. I'll do it. It's a tough assignment. If I'm going to do it, I guess I'd better see most of the people on the Executive Committee of the AF of L that are in town, and