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So La Guardia was out to get a whole lot of equipment that could handle fire. But it's very expensive. Of course, small towns and cities couldn't afford it. Some of them also couldn't see the sense of it. La Guardia began to make quite a propaganda for a good fire department and good fire equipment in every city, with the government providing the funds.

What else he thought of, I don't know, but I know that he was talking with Katherine Lenroot, either at her suggestion or as his - I don't know which - about the care of children in New York City. That was probably at her suggestion when she was thinking out the problems of evacuation of children from the big cities. They were also discussing the local day care of children. He was all off on that. He was very interested in it and very vigorous about making plans for New York City.

He kept coming down to see the President. Over and over again he saw the President about something. So the President broached this subject of a civil defense organization in Cabinet. My memory is that that same day La Guardia was talked about as the ideal person to head up such a thing, not by the President necessarily, but his name was mentioned. I think James M. Landis was the first person appointed and La Guardia went overseas, or perhaps La Guardia was the first appointed, then went overseas and then Landis came in. I've got my sequences mixed up, but I think La Guardia was appointed first.

I really think the President was pushed into this civil