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defense business. I don't think he really saw this civil defense thing. Maybe he did. But I think it was La Guardia's idea. La Guardia was appointed in May 1941. I'm not sure that he said that La Guardia was to come to Cabinet meeting, but at any rate La Guardia came to the next Cabinet meeting after he was appointed, apparently by special invitation. He was full of enthusiasm. He was full of ideas.

I remember some of the talk about La Guardia before he was appointed. I remember saying to the President, “You know, don't you, that he'll ride you to death? Can you stand it?”

Ickes turned on me, “What do you mean by saying that?”

I said, “I admire La Guardia. He's a friend of mine, but he's also a very hard rider. He's an imaginative man who gets an idea and he just never stops. If you're in his way you've got to go with him or there'll be a collision.”

“Well, we need people with energy like that.”

I said, “That's all right. I'm just asking the President if he can stand it. If he can, that's fine. But you have to dometimes endure quite a good deal from La Guardia. He's given to vituperative comments on things he doesn't like.”

“He's a very serious man.” Ickes was very much for him.

I thought he was a good man to be head of civil defense myself, until later on when it became obvious that what/we had done was to equip every town in this country with a first-class fire-fighting department. Of course, you couldn't help remembering that ever since he was a little boy La Guardia loved