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government, and believed that if you could teach business administration, you could teach government administration. That wasn't the first school. I think the school at Syracuse was perhaps the first one. There was also one at the University of Chicago with Charles Merriam, but that had not been very modern. He really taught government rather than administration, it seems to me.

A lot of these people like Louis Brownlow and Bernard Gladieux were beholden to Merriam. But one shouldn't mention Gladieux in the same breath as Merriam. Charles Merriam had very good and very practical ideas. Anyhow, there were several schools - Chicago, Syracuse, Harvard, and so forth.

Many of these men that Smith picked up for his new administration of Title II were of that school. There was Donald Stone, a tall, thin, long-necked person, blonde with big glasses. I think he came from Syracuse. He was an awfully nice, pleasant man. Nobody had anything against him or any of them, but here was a group that came in that were theoretical people. They had had a specialized education, and had a theory about how governments should be operated. Perhaps there is a science about operating a government, but I am almost certain that, just as there is no science of operating a factory or a department store, but it is a human expression which is largely impregnated with, if anything, a kind of artistic sense, a feel for the sitution,