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I wouldn't say very well. My wife interviewed her for a study we were doing, and came away quite impressed. She said that the Shirley whom she talked with seemed much more solid, substantive than the public impression of her. My wife was very impressed; she was not easily impressed.

Now, she announced her candidacy for the Democratic presidential nomination one year. What do you think was her point at that time?

A demonstration that it could be done. I was fascinated that the press kept saying that Jesse Jackson was the first black who announced.

Some memories are short.

Yes, I thought it was a sexist memory. I did my Ph.D. dissertation on recall and attitudes. Because Shirley did a great deal of campaigning. She didn't get the coverage that Jesse got. But it was not a secret. I was surprised when she announced that she was not going to run for public office any more. I went down to Washington to a reception that was held for her and talked with her. She said, “I've had enough.” I could understand that.

There were reports she was somewhat embittered. Did you have that impression, or was she just tired?