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I don't think it was self-starting. I don't think that there's any question that people in the administration knew it. Because actually, this is one of the responsibilities of an ambassador--to maintain communication, sometimes covert. I think that was a disgrace, the way that was handled even by Carter. Because certainly, other members of the State Department had been in quiet communication with the P.L.O., or Arab representatives. I felt that that was a responsibility that our U.N. ambassador had. As I said, overt or covert communication with other nations, representatives of other nations. It was bugged, interestingly enough.

Yes. I was just recently reviewing some of the news reports of the time where it was either reported or he was quoted as saying that one of the secret conversations was verbatim. There was a transcript in the State Department. He was quoted as saying, “Well, you expect that when you're in a position such as [his].” At any rate, this all sounds reasonable, and the fact that it happened seems reasonable?

Yes.

Do you think when Carter fired him, or at least when the furor arose and Carter accepted his resignation, that it was because of Jewish pressure?

Yes I think so, because it was all built up from the Israeli ambassador. Sure. I never understood our government's policy and