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Graves.

Ralph, Graves.

Yes.

And what were some of the factors in deciding for Grunwald?

His greater--I could nearly say scholarship, but I don't really mean scholarship--he has more of an intellectual approach and more of an intellectual curiosity about, particularly about back of the book [?], and maybe about foreign affairs, than Graves. Graves would have been much better manager of people, and might have been more respected. But by--

More respected by--

Had he become editor-in-chief, by the editors.

Grunwáld was not?

Grunwald, I'm saying, is less. Ralph is sort of a hero around there, in part because of how well he handled himself when LIFE folded, in terms of handling the people, the victims, and making them not be victims in the end.

So that was a tough decision to choose Grunwald?