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may have had underlying repercussions. This was the period when we had James Hamilton as Industrial Commissioner. It was a very great cross to bear. He was a thoroughly independent person. I was the Chairman of the Industrial Board. I've described how Smith relied on me to make the budget of the Department, when I was not the Industrial Commissioner. I was making and defending the budget, making and defending the whole legislative program. To be sure, as Chairman of the Board, I was involved in the operation of the Department, but not as its administrator.

I had good relations with the unions in New York State. I always went to the annual meeting of the AF of L; they always held their meeting the last week in August. How I used to hate to have to come up from Maine to go to Syracuse, or Rochester, and make an address at the convention of the State Federation of Labor. But I knew it was important and they were important to me. They were important to Smith. They were important to the program of legislation. I always sold them a bill of goods about the legislation that we needed and about the administration.

John Sullivan was the President of the AF of L state organization through a great deal of that period. I can't be certain of his dates, however. Tim Healy was