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It was just like that. He just couldn't bear Roosevelt. He didn't like his style. He didn't like the out of his jib. I think perhaps Roosevelt had always been sort of repelled by Moses's ways. Roosevelt had never had any contact with Moses on the personal side, but only on various types of official conferences, committees and conflicts. He had heard his rough, aggressive way of speaking. Moses would condemn people right to their face and tell them, “You're a perfect fool if you think that's the case.” I've heard Moses say that to people who have been invited to a conference to promote good work - “You're a perfect fool Mr. ‘So-and-So' if you think that's the case.” That does not tie people to you in bonds of amity. I think it was that that the President had been treated to. He had never been treated to the extreme amiability, kindliness and friendliness which Moses showed to people in his personal relations with them.

I think Moses always has been able to have this split personality. From the time I first knew him he was that way. He hadn't become quite so vituperative publicly, because he hadn't discovered that it really paid. I think his mother and other people who brought him up had tried to pacify him, told him to curb his tongue and not say mean things about people. That was the way to get on in the world, he was told. But he discovered quite early that to throw