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Frances PerkinsFrances Perkins
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become interested in was a woman who agreed with Nat Witt about everything. They all had sort of a general sympathetic attitude toward each other.

At this time no one said “Communist” with regard to Nat Witt. We didn't know what he was, but he was at least an erratic person. That was the most I would have said about him at that time.

Edwin Smith had always proclaimed that he thought Madden was very fine. I think to a very large extent they had influenced Madden's vote on particular cases - that is, Smith and Witt had.

At any rats, Smith's term was expiring. In talking it over with the President, it seemed to me that it was essential that we should be rid of Smith. Smith, however, was very unwilling to be retired at the expiration of his term and told me that he expected to be reappointed. In fact, he came to see me about it. That was some months before his term expired. I remember that I had to look him straight in the eye and tell him that I felt quite sure that he would not be reappointed. He put up a good deal of fight and argument with me about it. I, of course, didn't enter into the fight or the argument at all, saying that, after all, I was just giving him advance notice about it because of our old





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