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talked to Wallace. Certainly I talked to Ickes. I'm positive I talked to them. I think I talked to Morgenthau. Now, I got very little out of Morgenthau. I went over to see Morgenthau particularly about the possibilities of reviving the Council of National Defense. This was very early, and all conversations had to be very, very private. It wouldn't have done to have it known publicly that you were talking about a possible war emergency project, or even a defense project. So I went over to talk to him about the Council of National Defense, what it would do, and to what extent had any ideas about the control of money, or the control of finance.

It was on that occasion that I learned for the first time that he was having our whole conversation taken down on a tape recorder. He called a dictaphone. On this occasion I launched into the project and said, “Now, Henry, I want to talk about this because I think it will have to be done before long. We've got plans in the Department of Labor. I'm sure you have. Some of my economists thought that through the control of finance, and one way or another, there might be integration of our departments.”

Then he put his had over something on his desk and said, “Frances, I think I ought to tell you that for my convenience